Does the thought of one woman controlling another woman's mind thrill you beyond measure? Do your favorite dreams come wrapped in latex or rubber? How do you feel about robots? Here I am. I'm waiting.
This is the "comments" page for
Chapter 11 of Sleepwalkers, and here's the Peek Beneath the Duct Tape on this
chapter.
10 comments:
Anonymous
said...
Heartbreakingly beautiful, and much more optimistic than I'd expected. I'll have to reread the whole thing before I have extensive comments. But marvelous. Congratulations. :) -Aaronhalt
Nice finale, although I did find it a little anticlimactic. I guess I'm used to big grandiose speeches and imagery to make something go out with a bang, and I was sorta expecting one of those from Shara to Hawthorne, but instead it was kinda banal.
Oh well. Still competently written, and all in all an excellent novella.
Curse you thrall for posting so early :p! It *is* good tea reading though ;p.
I'll post a *full* review of my thoughts on the entire thing once it's on the EMCSA and I think that'll be good enough :p.
For now, I can just say that it really was a gorgeous read, but like you said totally *not* a stroke story (which makes for good morning reading actually).
The freshest thoughts I have about the ending are it *was* kinda anticlimatic I have to say, but very satisfying in a "things wrapped up" way.
Hawthorne's downfall, I actually liked, but it was a little too abrubt in that I expected *more* to come crashing down on her, but there was a subtlety in Shara's...on the fly planning that I found suspenseful.
I'll have a *ton* more in the review I have planned, but I do have a question.
It's kind of odd that there wasn't a mention of Dreamer *after* Hawthorne's fall, I mean it *is* still out there for anyone,more or less, to use. So what's to stop the next Hawthorne to repeat history? It's a case of "there must always be a Hawthorne", someone to keep such a vast empire from descending to chaos but I think that was how you addressed it post-Hawthorne with the diplomacy/democracy portion.
Still it's a bit of a gap to me, that there's the very real possibility of say...another person in power creating sleepwalkers of their peers to gain power.
Enough rambling :p, *awesome* *awesome* novel and even without the "stroke factor" definitely goes in my..top 5 this year.
Thank you Thrall, i really loved this story, its been a wonderful wonderful ride, & i enjoyed it! glad you gave it the kind of ending i hoped it would have gotten,very original & good enough for a movie script.....i think you didn't mention what happened to dreamer on purpose, in order for a possible sequel for "SLEEPWALKER II" "THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK"?....LOL, but anyways, thanks, now I'll have to find something else to look forward to on Thurs...
Thank you all! :-)I posted this chapter before going to work this morning, and I've been eager to get home and see what people had to say about it. I'm glad you all enjoyed the conclusion, even if it was anticlimactic for a couple of you*.
I didn't specifically address Dreamer in the post-Hawthorne world because I didn't have to. When Wizard and Shara talk about what will happen when China Wakes Up, that tells you that someone shared the Waker formula with them. Paul and Shara would have insisted on it, because of the kind of people they are.
Now that Waker is basically open-source, no one can use Dreamer as a tool of mass oppression. That's not to say no one else can devise another gene-based form of MC, but I have no plans to write a sequel of that type. Instead, I hope to eventually write a prequel about Angela and Reynaldo.
*I'm curious to know what would have made Hawthorne's imprinting more climactic without weighing story down. That scene doesn't feel like a good place for a speech to me, and I thought I had as many endings as the story could easily hold. I didn't want it to bog down like the end of The Return of the King! But if you have any ideas, feel free to share. Aaronhalt has already given me some great suggestions for sharpening Chapter 8, which I plan to incorporate in the e-book. If someone here can convince me of a better way to handle Hawthorne's imprinting, I'm open to the idea - and of course I'll give you full credit in the e-book.**
**As a matter of fact, I plan to thank all my blog commenters in the "Acknowledgments" section of the e-book.
You want suggestions, Thrall? Okay. The moments we were all waiting for were 1) to see Hawthorne go under, 2) to see the subvert-Hawthorne's command that ends everything. It's an anticlimax because we don't see either of those - we skip straight from halfway through Hawthorne's imprint directly to being told "oh hey, it's over now", which omits the "fuck yes!" moment that could have been there.
Hmm, I have to say I don't agree with you there. I wrote Hawthorne's induction scene in a lot of detail, and I gave Shara plenty of time to rant at her before and during the imprinting. But the real heat of that scene had to be the imprinting rather than the preaching.
And you did get to see the effects of Hawthorne's commands - most specifically with Wizard's rescue. IMO, the focus needed to remain on our three protagonists. It's true that what happens to Hawthorne is critically important, but I gave it plenty of attention in three different scenes. I just kept the focus of those scenes on the protagonists. If you reread and look more closely at the reactions Hawthorne has to Shara and Paul, you'll see everything you're looking for. She cries so hard that her tears have stained her shirt; she flinches away from Paul's gaze because she's embarrassed to have Paul look at her (I should clarify that she's embarrassed by what she did as a dictator, not how she looks) but does look up when Shara commands her to do so; and she's miserable because knows she can never please Shara, who's now become the most important person in her world - yet she's still trying desperately to please her in the finale. That's why she's so eager to know if her command saved the rest of the sleepwalkers, and why she offers to help with diplomacy.
So thanks for responding, but you haven't convinced me. ;-)
If think I can pinpoint the problem *just* a bit more thrall, at least from my perspective.
Though disclaimer, I really *don't* think it's necessary as I like the ending as is.
If you've ever watched...Serenity (the Firefly movie, and I'm sure you have :p), semi-spoilers just in case you haven't.
There's this ending scene where the antagonist through the entire movie has this...worldview, and it's directly against the worldview of the protagonists but then sees something that changes his view and there's a tense but predictable scene when he tells his men to back down from killing the protagonists.
Now while we *know* he had a change of heart, it's not really shown on screen in it's entirety, but mostly, and I think that "oomph" moment of Hawthorne *realizing* she lost was eaten up by Shara's domination over her.
So for example..while we were in Wizard's POV for her imprinting and saw her transform from within, Hawthorne's was external, we couldn't hear what was going through her mind step-by-step *because* Shara was in control so much.
Looking back, I think I sort of expected a reverse Paul, where we were in Hawthorne's shoes and *she* slowly became a puppet and realized it.
I'm not sure *if* that clears it up at all, and not to say I *would* change anything, as things sound better when you think of what could be vs. how they're written, and the way it is now I'm not sure would be "better" if her downfall is expanded in that way.
Actually, Uzobono, I haven't ever watched Firefly or Serenity. ;-) But it seems to me that you're saying you'd like to see Hawthorne's induction scene from her point of view rather than from Shara's. Spoken like a true sub! ;-P
But for me, it was more important to write that scene from Shara's POV. She's one of the three protagonists, and she was hurt far worse than Paul or Wizard. So as much as we want to see Hawthorne taken down, it's even more important to see Shara get her moment of retribution.
And most importantly, you do get both in this scene, because I gave you plenty of indications of what Hawthorne was thinking and feeling. Read the passage again. Notice what her body does, especially her eyes. Notice the bits where Shara guesses what Hawthorne must be thinking or feeling. Everything is in there. It's just subtle. But like I've been saying all along, this isn't a stroke story. It's a novel. ;-)
10 comments:
Heartbreakingly beautiful, and much more optimistic than I'd expected. I'll have to reread the whole thing before I have extensive comments. But marvelous. Congratulations. :) -Aaronhalt
Nice finale, although I did find it a little anticlimactic. I guess I'm used to big grandiose speeches and imagery to make something go out with a bang, and I was sorta expecting one of those from Shara to Hawthorne, but instead it was kinda banal.
Oh well. Still competently written, and all in all an excellent novella.
Yay!
Curse you thrall for posting so early :p! It *is* good tea reading though ;p.
I'll post a *full* review of my thoughts on the entire thing once it's on the EMCSA and I think that'll be good enough :p.
For now, I can just say that it really was a gorgeous read, but like you said totally *not* a stroke story (which makes for good morning reading actually).
The freshest thoughts I have about the ending are it *was* kinda anticlimatic I have to say, but very satisfying in a "things wrapped up" way.
Hawthorne's downfall, I actually liked, but it was a little too abrubt in that I expected *more* to come crashing down on her, but there was a subtlety in Shara's...on the fly planning that I found suspenseful.
I'll have a *ton* more in the review I have planned, but I do have a question.
It's kind of odd that there wasn't a mention of Dreamer *after* Hawthorne's fall, I mean it *is* still out there for anyone,more or less, to use. So what's to stop the next Hawthorne to repeat history? It's a case of "there must always be a Hawthorne", someone to keep such a vast empire from descending to chaos but I think that was how you addressed it post-Hawthorne with the diplomacy/democracy portion.
Still it's a bit of a gap to me, that there's the very real possibility of say...another person in power creating sleepwalkers of their peers to gain power.
Enough rambling :p, *awesome* *awesome* novel and even without the "stroke factor" definitely goes in my..top 5 this year.
I punched the air when Hawthorne got the Dreamer in her. Thank you for the happy ending. Thank you.
You're a good writer, both in terms of skill and technique, and in terms that even your darkest writing has an underlying decency to it. It paid off.
Wonderful.
Thank you Thrall, i really loved this story, its been a wonderful wonderful ride, & i enjoyed it! glad you gave it the kind of ending i hoped it would have gotten,very original & good enough for a movie script.....i think you didn't mention what happened to dreamer on purpose, in order for a possible sequel for "SLEEPWALKER II" "THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK"?....LOL, but anyways, thanks, now I'll have to find something else to look forward to on Thurs...
Thank you all! :-)I posted this chapter before going to work this morning, and I've been eager to get home and see what people had to say about it. I'm glad you all enjoyed the conclusion, even if it was anticlimactic for a couple of you*.
I didn't specifically address Dreamer in the post-Hawthorne world because I didn't have to. When Wizard and Shara talk about what will happen when China Wakes Up, that tells you that someone shared the Waker formula with them. Paul and Shara would have insisted on it, because of the kind of people they are.
Now that Waker is basically open-source, no one can use Dreamer as a tool of mass oppression. That's not to say no one else can devise another gene-based form of MC, but I have no plans to write a sequel of that type. Instead, I hope to eventually write a prequel about Angela and Reynaldo.
*I'm curious to know what would have made Hawthorne's imprinting more climactic without weighing story down. That scene doesn't feel like a good place for a speech to me, and I thought I had as many endings as the story could easily hold. I didn't want it to bog down like the end of The Return of the King! But if you have any ideas, feel free to share. Aaronhalt has already given me some great suggestions for sharpening Chapter 8, which I plan to incorporate in the e-book. If someone here can convince me of a better way to handle Hawthorne's imprinting, I'm open to the idea - and of course I'll give you full credit in the e-book.**
**As a matter of fact, I plan to thank all my blog commenters in the "Acknowledgments" section of the e-book.
You want suggestions, Thrall? Okay. The moments we were all waiting for were 1) to see Hawthorne go under, 2) to see the subvert-Hawthorne's command that ends everything. It's an anticlimax because we don't see either of those - we skip straight from halfway through Hawthorne's imprint directly to being told "oh hey, it's over now", which omits the "fuck yes!" moment that could have been there.
Hmm, I have to say I don't agree with you there. I wrote Hawthorne's induction scene in a lot of detail, and I gave Shara plenty of time to rant at her before and during the imprinting. But the real heat of that scene had to be the imprinting rather than the preaching.
And you did get to see the effects of Hawthorne's commands - most specifically with Wizard's rescue. IMO, the focus needed to remain on our three protagonists. It's true that what happens to Hawthorne is critically important, but I gave it plenty of attention in three different scenes. I just kept the focus of those scenes on the protagonists. If you reread and look more closely at the reactions Hawthorne has to Shara and Paul, you'll see everything you're looking for. She cries so hard that her tears have stained her shirt; she flinches away from Paul's gaze because she's embarrassed to have Paul look at her (I should clarify that she's embarrassed by what she did as a dictator, not how she looks) but does look up when Shara commands her to do so; and she's miserable because knows she can never please Shara, who's now become the most important person in her world - yet she's still trying desperately to please her in the finale. That's why she's so eager to know if her command saved the rest of the sleepwalkers, and why she offers to help with diplomacy.
So thanks for responding, but you haven't convinced me. ;-)
If think I can pinpoint the problem *just* a bit more thrall, at least from my perspective.
Though disclaimer, I really *don't* think it's necessary as I like the ending as is.
If you've ever watched...Serenity (the Firefly movie, and I'm sure you have :p), semi-spoilers just in case you haven't.
There's this ending scene where the antagonist through the entire movie has this...worldview, and it's directly against the worldview of the protagonists but then sees something that changes his view and there's a tense but predictable scene when he tells his men to back down from killing the protagonists.
Now while we *know* he had a change of heart, it's not really shown on screen in it's entirety, but mostly, and I think that "oomph" moment of Hawthorne *realizing* she lost was eaten up by Shara's domination over her.
So for example..while we were in Wizard's POV for her imprinting and saw her transform from within, Hawthorne's was external, we couldn't hear what was going through her mind step-by-step *because* Shara was in control so much.
Looking back, I think I sort of expected a reverse Paul, where we were in Hawthorne's shoes and *she* slowly became a puppet and realized it.
I'm not sure *if* that clears it up at all, and not to say I *would* change anything, as things sound better when you think of what could be vs. how they're written, and the way it is now I'm not sure would be "better" if her downfall is expanded in that way.
Actually, Uzobono, I haven't ever watched Firefly or Serenity. ;-) But it seems to me that you're saying you'd like to see Hawthorne's induction scene from her point of view rather than from Shara's. Spoken like a true sub! ;-P
But for me, it was more important to write that scene from Shara's POV. She's one of the three protagonists, and she was hurt far worse than Paul or Wizard. So as much as we want to see Hawthorne taken down, it's even more important to see Shara get her moment of retribution.
And most importantly, you do get both in this scene, because I gave you plenty of indications of what Hawthorne was thinking and feeling. Read the passage again. Notice what her body does, especially her eyes. Notice the bits where Shara guesses what Hawthorne must be thinking or feeling. Everything is in there. It's just subtle. But like I've been saying all along, this isn't a stroke story. It's a novel. ;-)
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